Notice Heritage shard rules have been updated - Please take a moment to read this post and re-read the rules.

[tektran]

So Cono, I like you and I was trying to have a discussion. We have a difference of opinion, and I thought we were having a civil discussion. There's no reason to be an ass.
"If you get that through your head then maybe you'll understand the point that I was trying to make. "
Completely 100% uncalled for man. I've never disrespected you at any point in time. Yes, you have valid points, but being an asshole to get your point across is uncalled for. I'm done with this conversation. I truly hope you get into a better mood and have a good rest of the night.

 

[DewCono]

Yeah I'm really not in a good mood, I'm just going to remove myself from this post. Sorry.

 

[Brave Sir Robin]

if the rule has to be, it has to be. I find no reason to change it from what it used to be. what was I hurting by training my pets while afk? I have put a lot of time into this shard. I only get to play so many hours in a day. I would rather not spend it trying to GM chivalry on a pet that takes 30 hours to gm. or nijitsu that's take for freeking ever to skill up. you cant tell me it takes that long to farm dungeon points to get good gear. I made my mage gear in a matter of a couple days playing. I find this new rule very upsetting. I basically kills my entire way of life in UO. I play on the shard for the way it was set up back in may when I joined. the ability to afk skill gain and train my pets afk was a huge reason I stayed. I have a gm blacksmith and a gm carpenter and a gm tailor all of which I skilled afk. I didn't gather the resources afk, just did the actual skill gaining afk. I have about 15 partially trained pets and only 2 or 3 fully trained pets. and I have been playing since may this year. I do all this training on enhanced client where I have to pretty clever to do it without losing my pet loyalty loss. and I have also lost a fair amount of gold to insurance cost when I wake up dead half the time. afk training is not without its costs. I have to feed the pet every 3-4 hours to keep it from running off. one point, the pet is only half a tamers gear. yes I can kill a lot of things with a noob suit, but I can only be competitive with a well built suit of amror and a good book or weapon that I cannot get afk. rant over, please change it back!

 

[Noah]

I think training a pet afk should be okay, as long as its owner is not auto looting items. There's no difference in a pet training than there is a player training skills IMO. Just like Resource gatherers, Dan can check if there's looting going on while a pet trains... If there is, its illegal they get jailed/booted
BUt yeah, Tek and Robin have a valid point... It takes days if not months to train a decent pet.

 

[Jester]

I would have to agree, I do not see a reason in debating the points as they are already laid out, I do not think AFK training hurts anything, I have multiple tamers and have never trained a pet AFK but do not see any reason why someone should not be allowed to.

 

[DewCono]

Just to be clear: I am all for AFK pet training, I was just trying to explain the logic I could see on both sides.

 

[Dan]

So then let me ask this:

Is it possible to AFK train pets in your house? Not in dungeons or hunting areas?

 

[DewCono]

Yes you can. If you log in two of your three allowed accounts, add them both to the same guild (or warring guilds), and have the pets fight each other you could heal them with their respective owners while allowing them to gain skill.

For any casting skills: Create 2 fenced in areas with gates to enter them. Tell the pets to stay inside on opposing sides of the fence, and have them attempt to fight each other. This will cause them to train magic school skills.
For any combat skills: Have them fight each other directly (wrestling, tactics, anatomy, parry).
For magic resist: Put the pet into a fenced off area with a gate, and cast curse on them repeatedly.

 

[Jester]

Is there difference between 2 pets training AFK off each other and a pet training off the elementals?

Just curious as to where we are drawing lines and why.

Also wondering, is the issue the skill training or the pet leveling? Because if it is levels, i am fairly confident that pet on pet does not gain levels

 

[tektran]

I believe the concern is 2 fold. You can sell trained pets, and there's the possibility of tamers afking in dungeons, earning rewards while afk, or scripting and looting corpses that the pet kills while training afk.

It's a valid concern. But I'm not sure this was happening to begin with, and I truly do not believe it's something that will ever be a major problem on our shard.

The selling of trained pets: Really, there is no market on our shard. We do not have the player base to support this market. If anything, 1 or 2 pets here or there might be sold. Over the course of months. There's only a few of us that primarily play tamers. If we were making mad bank from selling trained pets, more of you would do it.

The farming items and points while afk: Yeah, this is a tough one. I get the fear of the possibility of abuse. And I can only speculate, because I'm a player with no behind the scenes server data, but I don't think this was something that was commonly occurring. I think this is more of a fear of potential abuse, especially with the removal of bonded pets losing loyalty. It's a perfectly rational fear. And if we had a large player base I think it would be a required rule. But given our current player numbers, I don't think this is something that will occur.

I've seen mentioned about pet training within a custom house with this design in mind. I've read forums of people doing it. And while it's a fantastic idea, it's hard for a new player due to the huge cost associated with Heritage homes.

Also, someone would have to correct me about this, but in utilizing multiple account to train off of each others pets, or even using a single account, and having your two pets skill off of one another, would you not need to be guilded? I remember being guilded being a key part of training without monsters a long time ago. I'm not sure if the mechanics are still the same or not. I bring this up because Heritage also has a huge upfront price of 250k to form a guild. I believe OSI is only 25k. This would also be hard for a player new to the server.

 

[Omalley]

Afk'ing in dungeons (No matter the reason) should be a violation of the rules.. gold, reagents, Minor Tots, ingots, ore, ect ect.. all drop on mobs and are resources.. and we know the rules for afk farming resources... now if you are sitting in your house, training your pet on another pet, afk.. i think this should be ok.

 

[Dan]

A maxed out pet would also be like any other templet getting the gear they needed would it not?

I am not against changing the rules to allow the training of a pets skills in private areas, AFK, like a house. No longer will be allow pets to be trained in dungeons or any other location where items drop.

 

[Omalley]

I'm not sure if the mechanics are still the same or not. I bring this up because Heritage also has a huge upfront price of 250k to form a guild. I believe OSI is only 25k. This would also be hard for a player new to the server.

It was 5 mill man, enjoy the 250k price.. we fought for months to get it lowered to that. (No offense, cuse i agree with you)

 

[Dan]

Not to venture too far off topic but the main reason guilds cost so much is so someone does not create a guild for 25,000gp and leave the shard never to return, thus taking up names. With a lot of this stuff we are thinking LONG TERM as Heritage will be there, and continue to evolve. This also prevents people from creating and dropping guilds every week.

 

[tektran]

People keep speaking to the power of tamers. And I do agree, tamers are a bit easier than some other choices. And skilling up a pet does make the tamer a more formidable foe. But as Robin said in a previous post, even with a fully trained pet, my tamer is still subpar without a good suit, and a good magic build to accompany it. Yes, the pet granted me ease of freedom to do a lot of things. But I couldn't contend with the big boys until I got a better suit, my first of which was gifted to me by Goober. (Thanks goob). Then I thought I was good. Then this invasion process started and I realized just how underwhelming my abilities were. So I spent the past few days reworking my character and incorporating spellweaving. And it's good, but my power still isn't there because my suit needs to be better.

I'm not complaining. I've enjoyed myself every bit of the way and wouldn't have changed a thing.

I'm merely suggesting that a skilled up pet isn't the same as a mage with an amazing suit, or a sampire with an amazing suit. I think non-tamers are under the impression that we are just as powerful as they are. Sure, we can get that way, but just having the pet alone doesn't put us on the same level as them.

 

[tektran]

Oh, just to be clear: I'm not asking to be on the same level as them. I'm happy with what I have. But others who may not be super familiar with tamers, or who haven't played a tamer in a long time seem to have some misunderstandings on the powerlevel of a tamer with crap gear but a good pet, vs a non tamer with good gear.

 

[Noah]

A skilled mage with an amazing suit and a pair of Skele dragons is much more powerful than a tamer. IMO. However, recently the necro-mages did get nerfed because we cant cast death ray with the skele dragons now. Once you switch masteries the skele drags go wild....

 

[tektran]

Also, I think it's very fair, if the rule were changed to allowing afk skilling of pets to happen in private areas. I understand the concerns of afk farming. While this method would be more challenging for a player new to the shard, once they're established and have the fund to spend creating a guild, they can then utilize afk pet skilling. I think this is a reasonable "meet in the middle".

 

[Jester]

I believe the concern is 2 fold. You can sell trained pets, and there's the possibility of tamers afking in dungeons, earning rewards while afk, or scripting and looting corpses that the pet kills while training afk.

Well lets start by saying any AFK that you can gain any resource with is already against the rules, and this is not just a tamer issue, there is many builds that i am sure could accomplish this.

Afk'ing in dungeons (No matter the reason) should be a violation of the rules.. gold, reagents, Minor Tots, ingots, ore, ect ect.. all drop on mobs and are resources.. and we know the rules for afk farming resources... now if you are sitting in your house, training your pet on another pet, afk.. i think this should be ok.

I agree if the AFK is gathering a resource

A maxed out pet would also be like any other templet getting the gear they needed would it not?

I am not against changing the rules to allow the training of a pets skills in private areas, AFK, like a house. No longer will be allow pets to be trained in dungeons or any other location where items drop.

In my opinion I do not see it as any difference than skilling a player, yes the pet is an extension of the player but is not gear it is an extension of the players skill

On the subject of AFK in a house vs AFK in a dungeon: IF there is no resource gathering only the pet fighting (elemental all night) what is the difference other than forcing someone to either level another tamer, teamup with a guildie or use 1-2 level pets.

 

[Brave Sir Robin]

as far as afk training, if people are afk training pets in dungeons that give points in any way, jail them. I only afk in areas that don't give points. no tokuno dungeons, no vurtue dungeons, no ilshenar dungeons except shadow or valorite elementals. it is possible to afk pet train in ones house, but as long as people follow the rules, it shouldn't be and issue. I was jailed for afk training on miasma because I didn't realize she dropped arties. I paid the fine and will never farm her afk again . put down some guide lines and all should be fine.