Suggestion ... to remove the list of players.
- Thread starter BinhoGuedes
- Start date
Do it in Tram then if you don't want to get involved in VvV. You get 60s delay before getting tagged into VvV
bribes are less in fel...
I was trying to avoid this thread with a ten foot pole.
Look, in UO, there is rampant cheating/automation and On Heritage it is no different. There are rail bots checking spawns and those whom would be doing said spawns are using this [players list to combat these rail bots.
While i personally close the list out upon log in,
this is nothing more than asking Dan to help those who cheat, get away with it.
Look, in UO, there is rampant cheating/automation and On Heritage it is no different. There are rail bots checking spawns and those whom would be doing said spawns are using this [players list to combat these rail bots.
While i personally close the list out upon log in,
this is nothing more than asking Dan to help those who cheat, get away with it.
Pls share those bot's with us, name it.
So everyone can avoid them
Bybz
Newbie
Well if people are asking for changes and in your opinion is for helping bots and cheaters, with the toggle [players will be a lot easier for Dan to track them down since he can just check who is using the [players or not.
I don't use the list to see if the bots are running.
I just wait until the Brazillians are asleep.
Strange coincidence that has worked for me 100%
But this isn't about what I do, it's about keeping the ability for solo spawners to know who is online.
I get it that you guys are mad because people can use that list to avoid getting ganked 4 vs 1 at a champ spawn.
If Dan removes this list, what will end up happening is that even LESS solo players will try to spawn because they will just assume that the rail-bots are running & you'll get to gank LESS & not MORE like you think it will lead to.
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Could be something lost in translation but i'm not getting exactly what you are trying to say here.
We can all take some comfort in the fact that Dan usually doesn't make big changes just to appease a guild or two. In this thread we have two PK guilds begging for the removal of a tool useful in combating them. This thread doesn't represent the majority of the server.
OP
BinhoGuedes
Neophyte II
Again, facts are being distorted. What we are proposing and promoting an evolution in the sense that the server is complete and is attractive in all ways. Stop thinking individually. I only see people talking about bots that check spawn. To be direct in name to the oxen.
Already several cool ideas and people instead of gathering and thinking together aiming at the game in general, think of you.
Already several cool ideas and people instead of gathering and thinking together aiming at the game in general, think of you.
I am thinking of the server. The majority of the server aren't in BRK or Doob.
Well as someone who likes to PvP - I don't think I ever used that player list. No vote either way from me. I always champed fully expecting to get raided - running 3 accounts at champs (me, myself and my mule) the raiders were sure to pick off one of my toons. I did notice there was a point that it felt like it was a guaranteed raid regardless of which spawn I chose to work which is likely how this thread has gained so much "energy".
The problem with UO PvP isn't this list, or "bots" or whatever - its just not a popular game in general and we are a small shard. And here, you have to be lucky to find a few guys/gals who both have the time and inclination to organize to go out and scrap. I think we have...what 3 pvp groups active atm? (not Zeal that's for sure). Two are allied? It's a damn wonder people not in those groups want this list active. If you guys want more fights, spread the few pvpers left on the shard into even'ish teams and duke it out. But reading this thread I don't think more pvp is the goal here. It serves only those who are getting bored with too few opportunities to leverage their numbers advantage. Break teams down into smaller groups and I'm sure pvp will improve. We were in that sweet spot for a short while here and it was a lot of fun.
The problem with UO PvP isn't this list, or "bots" or whatever - its just not a popular game in general and we are a small shard. And here, you have to be lucky to find a few guys/gals who both have the time and inclination to organize to go out and scrap. I think we have...what 3 pvp groups active atm? (not Zeal that's for sure). Two are allied? It's a damn wonder people not in those groups want this list active. If you guys want more fights, spread the few pvpers left on the shard into even'ish teams and duke it out. But reading this thread I don't think more pvp is the goal here. It serves only those who are getting bored with too few opportunities to leverage their numbers advantage. Break teams down into smaller groups and I'm sure pvp will improve. We were in that sweet spot for a short while here and it was a lot of fun.
That's how it is and should always be with fel. You step into it and you should be prepared to meet someone who might not like the fact that you're alive. Or at least be aware that such thing might happen.
I'm still strongly into making changes in fel to make it more attractive for players, so even pvm will want to take a risk of potential slaughter. After removing bonuses in fel, only thing that's left are champs.
Problem is that market is flooded with scrolls so majority prefer to flash their wallet and buy what they need instead of taking a risk or organizing party to do some champs.
Fel has to change (not getting removed, don't get me wrong, I'm sure player base would shrink considerably if Fel was to be removed).
We need more players on both ends of gameplay. Pvm and pvp. We got nice base of pvms currently while pvp is still neglected. All involved in recent pvp events are grateful, I'm sure of it but that's not enough. We need something more, revamped vvv or maybe even factions for nostalgia hit? Some capture the flag monthly events? King of the hill? Influence zones in towns that give profits? (not current vvv ones where you win town and all you get is... no, you don't event get lausy t-shirt for that).
At the beginning of such systems I'm sure frequency will be low but with time? Im rather positive that it will lure some players focused more on "intense player interactions" to Heritage. We got a solid base right now. Server is stable and have some history now. All we need is something to convince people that doing pvp has a point here.
Hope some of it makes any sense.
I'm still strongly into making changes in fel to make it more attractive for players, so even pvm will want to take a risk of potential slaughter. After removing bonuses in fel, only thing that's left are champs.
Problem is that market is flooded with scrolls so majority prefer to flash their wallet and buy what they need instead of taking a risk or organizing party to do some champs.
Fel has to change (not getting removed, don't get me wrong, I'm sure player base would shrink considerably if Fel was to be removed).
We need more players on both ends of gameplay. Pvm and pvp. We got nice base of pvms currently while pvp is still neglected. All involved in recent pvp events are grateful, I'm sure of it but that's not enough. We need something more, revamped vvv or maybe even factions for nostalgia hit? Some capture the flag monthly events? King of the hill? Influence zones in towns that give profits? (not current vvv ones where you win town and all you get is... no, you don't event get lausy t-shirt for that).
At the beginning of such systems I'm sure frequency will be low but with time? Im rather positive that it will lure some players focused more on "intense player interactions" to Heritage. We got a solid base right now. Server is stable and have some history now. All we need is something to convince people that doing pvp has a point here.
Hope some of it makes any sense.
(spoiler alert : off topic from original poll but related to it)
A lot of people view PvP differently.
While i personally like for their to be a specific purpose/reason for a fight to take place. Many view the PvP AS the reason for it.
These are the people that do Moongate fighting.
They are as impatient as they come.
They want to log in game and have an assortment of people to fight within 5 minutes or they log back off & onto another server looking for that fight.
I know several people like this & they aren't coming to Heritage now nor will they be doing so anytime soon. The "active PvP scene" is NOT a draw to this server nor will it be until the avg daily server population is at LEAST DOUBLE what it is right now.
Dan is playing a balancing act that all game Devs do regarding what both PvM & PvP players want. (the industry standard to deal with it = if both groups are crying the same amount, you've found the sweet spot)
With that being said, lets examine some of the things that both groups want & what result would come from certain things as witnessed by the actions of other servers.
Some like the idea of Fel rules everywhere & no insurance on items AKA Seige Perilous ruleset. Most don't. Seige on OSI is dead as a doornail. The EA Devs said "OK hardcore PvPers, here's your fantasy world."......nobody plays there.
I'm sure a good amount of Heritage players sort of view UO as a single player game that happens to have others around to trade/talk to. (I do this a lot) & just hop on to kill mob x,y,z. Collect something to slap on a vendor and call it a day. I can tell you that these players DO NOT want to go work a champ spawn for 20+ minutes to be ganked by a broup of 6 people for the reward of maybe getting 6 powerscrolls (a solo player who isn't using scripts to have a separate justice character won't be getting 12) of which most will be 110's & usually none of them useful. There's not really much incentive to run champs. There's other things to do ingame & nobody want's to go up vs a zerg by themselves unless they are cheating (using speedhacks/C.E./w/e to outrun everyone ingame)
Speaking of movement speed ingame, the server side speed-cap imho is set way too high. (this goes for all servers both free & on OSI) I've ran a footrace with FireFly (who's from Poland and known to be laggy) through Luna and she smoked me. I know Dan doesn't think that ping/latency/whatever you want to call it affects movement speed ingame but i've proved that it does over the course of several years. Now, as a player i ask "Why would i WANT to come & PvP versus players who move twice as fast as i do ingame & who will offscreen the moment i get them below 50% health?"
Dan himself demonstrated how some game mods remove the delay timer for turning. Cheaters have denied using these programs for years (kinda like how they claim that rail-bots aren't being used every now and then)
So why is it that people whom ARE cheating (stop pretending that you're not, we know you're full of shit & debating whether you are or not isn't what we are doing here) wonder WHY nobody is rushing to play a video game with them.
The answer is simple, "It's because YOU ARE cheating."
20+ year old game and (some) people haven't figured out why Fel = empty.
A few groups of 6+ are sitting on here hoping to get this [Player list removed in hopes of being able to hide their (cheats) spawn-bots in hopes of ganking them.
1 - That's a dick move & it shows that you're an asshole.
2 - It's NOT going to have the effect that you intend. Less people will go & try to spawn because of how much/often you deny that rail-bots are being used, players know that they ARE being used.
3 - It's not JUST about YOU, because at any time another guild/group could come along & use rail-bots as well.
Pull your heads out of your asses & realize that what you are asking for isn't going to yield the result you want. Nobody wants to come play 6 versus 1.
A lot of people view PvP differently.
While i personally like for their to be a specific purpose/reason for a fight to take place. Many view the PvP AS the reason for it.
These are the people that do Moongate fighting.
They are as impatient as they come.
They want to log in game and have an assortment of people to fight within 5 minutes or they log back off & onto another server looking for that fight.
I know several people like this & they aren't coming to Heritage now nor will they be doing so anytime soon. The "active PvP scene" is NOT a draw to this server nor will it be until the avg daily server population is at LEAST DOUBLE what it is right now.
Dan is playing a balancing act that all game Devs do regarding what both PvM & PvP players want. (the industry standard to deal with it = if both groups are crying the same amount, you've found the sweet spot)
With that being said, lets examine some of the things that both groups want & what result would come from certain things as witnessed by the actions of other servers.
Some like the idea of Fel rules everywhere & no insurance on items AKA Seige Perilous ruleset. Most don't. Seige on OSI is dead as a doornail. The EA Devs said "OK hardcore PvPers, here's your fantasy world."......nobody plays there.
I'm sure a good amount of Heritage players sort of view UO as a single player game that happens to have others around to trade/talk to. (I do this a lot) & just hop on to kill mob x,y,z. Collect something to slap on a vendor and call it a day. I can tell you that these players DO NOT want to go work a champ spawn for 20+ minutes to be ganked by a broup of 6 people for the reward of maybe getting 6 powerscrolls (a solo player who isn't using scripts to have a separate justice character won't be getting 12) of which most will be 110's & usually none of them useful. There's not really much incentive to run champs. There's other things to do ingame & nobody want's to go up vs a zerg by themselves unless they are cheating (using speedhacks/C.E./w/e to outrun everyone ingame)
Speaking of movement speed ingame, the server side speed-cap imho is set way too high. (this goes for all servers both free & on OSI) I've ran a footrace with FireFly (who's from Poland and known to be laggy) through Luna and she smoked me. I know Dan doesn't think that ping/latency/whatever you want to call it affects movement speed ingame but i've proved that it does over the course of several years. Now, as a player i ask "Why would i WANT to come & PvP versus players who move twice as fast as i do ingame & who will offscreen the moment i get them below 50% health?"
Dan himself demonstrated how some game mods remove the delay timer for turning. Cheaters have denied using these programs for years (kinda like how they claim that rail-bots aren't being used every now and then)
So why is it that people whom ARE cheating (stop pretending that you're not, we know you're full of shit & debating whether you are or not isn't what we are doing here) wonder WHY nobody is rushing to play a video game with them.
The answer is simple, "It's because YOU ARE cheating."
20+ year old game and (some) people haven't figured out why Fel = empty.
A few groups of 6+ are sitting on here hoping to get this [Player list removed in hopes of being able to hide their (cheats) spawn-bots in hopes of ganking them.
1 - That's a dick move & it shows that you're an asshole.
2 - It's NOT going to have the effect that you intend. Less people will go & try to spawn because of how much/often you deny that rail-bots are being used, players know that they ARE being used.
3 - It's not JUST about YOU, because at any time another guild/group could come along & use rail-bots as well.
Pull your heads out of your asses & realize that what you are asking for isn't going to yield the result you want. Nobody wants to come play 6 versus 1.
And we've prooved that changing your laptop can give you HUGE boost to game performance even on old shitty official 2d client (sup FireFly
) Don't ask to downgrade everyone else because your hardware cannot run game from 1999 in full speed. Please.Oh and turn delay was reported by us
Sadly it's way harder to fix it as it would mean that players using potatos to run UO (using old 2d client too) would be unable to run at all (tested on TC months ago) so fix was never pushed to Heritage. So if i remember correctly, Dans decision was to leave it as it is because it affects only one group of people - pvp players.As for pvp - players who need reason to fight and those who don't are two sides of same coin. When you give reason for one group, other group will come just to piss them off aaand wheel is spinning! Isn't that what we try to achieve? Once we get to that point, topics like this one won't be necessary because noone will give a shit about player list when they won't have to wait DAYS in order to fight with someone. Few of my guildies tried to become red in normal way, by killing blue players in Fel. Guess what? It's impossible! You cannot find enough blue players in fel in order to keep justice levels rising
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I'm 100% down for perma banning people who are speedhacking/removing turn delay (we have been helping Dan in testing a fix for this, unfortunately it was causing issues for people on 2d client)/using rail bots.
Hur-dur-hur..Get a new computer!...Hur-dur-hur.And we've prooved that changing your laptop can give you HUGE boost to game performance even on old shitty official 2d client (sup FireFly
Don't ask me to buy new hardware to play a video game.
Also so you completely ignored the question, i'll say it again.
"Why would i WANT to come & PvP versus players who move twice as fast as i do ingame."
The turn delay thing is an issue because if i'm not mistaken, the EC does this as well. Maybe a custom client will fix this issue but that's imho a whole nother subject.
The speedhacking is easily fixed by lowering the speed movement cap.
Don't ask us to use old 2d client when there are way more better ones available for free. Seriously, your eyes don't hurt you from looking at this "fluid" game play? Because since I moved to LCD screens, old 2d client became unplayable.
How would I or anyone else know why would you want that? I wouldn't, I know that much. Noone else also knows why you use potato that can barely run uo and then complain that others run too fast. Because that's what your post looks like. Rant about others using newer clients to play game you play so you call everyone using them cheaters. It's not 1999 anymore, wake up. Things move faster than ever and it's a miracle that some people devoted years of their own free time to bring back game like uo to newer standards. Sadly people frantically stuck with their 16fps 2d clients is what caused uo so much problems. Say what you want about uo devs but they tried to make new clients fitted better to new standards but every time they were downed by those who refused to move to something newer.
Cuo is not voodoo, you don't have to sacrifice 2 chickens or cats and smoke a cuban cigar every time you launch it.
Of course there are "exploits" (or rather features that old 2d client don't support) and possibility of running bots in newer clients and that could be really easily solved, but guess what? Then you would be forced to use cuo or Orion so we're stuck in middle ground where noone is happy.
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